When Wolfgang Dietrich met Peter Kirschner, the founder and head of Native Spirit, a nature and wilderness school at the river Inn in Tyrol, it pretty soon became clear for him that Native Spirit is one of the elements he had been looking for as a modular unit in the MA Program. For many years now it has been a learning space for generations of students, not an easy one because visiting this space means to be challenged with oneself in a quite direct or even shamanic way. In this interview Peter Kirschner and his former partner Hanna Raab talk about their personal relation with Wolfgang Dietrich, and how one has influenced the other over the years.